For <span lj:user='californiaquail' style='white-space: nowrap;' class='ljuser'><a href='https://www.dreamwidth.org/profile?user=californiaquail'><img src='https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png' alt='[profile] ' width='17' height='17' style='vertical-align: text-bottom; border: 0; padding-right: 1px;' /></a><a href='https://www.dreamwidth.org/profile?user=californiaquail'><b>californiaquail</b></a></span> [Everybody Lies.]

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This is the look that Wilson put on House's face. Makes me want to cry.

Yeah, he's the "nice one."

Thanks to

echo5968 over at

hughbunnies for the amazing screencap.

Mood::

sad

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There are 29 comments on this entry. (Reply.)

Great ending but don't quite get the animosity between the two. HL's dramatic acting is great although as I'm rewatching Jeeves and Wooster I so miss him in comedy and with SF.

I love Jeeves and Wooster! Hugh is such a versatile actor to be able to pull off both Bertie Wooster and House, MD so incredibly well.

The animosity between House and Wilson is really complicated and worthy of an entire dissertation. There is a lot of garbage between them that goes back a ways, and I don't know if I could do it justice at the moment because my head's a bit fluffy right now.

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awwww, that's heartbreaking :( poor thing... yeah, i noticed house's expressions this last ep revealed a lot of vulnerability, and he looked sooooo trapped and embarrassed and sad when wilson pointed out he'd been seeing the psychiatrist... :(

sometimes wilson makes me want to hit him...

and people wonder why i write so much dark!wilson

*wanders away grumbling*

It is heartbreaking. I only wish Wilson could be less self-involved so that he could SEE this look on House's face and know that he put it there.

Thanks, Wilson. Whatever chance House had to try and help himself, you have once again ruined it. Good job.

After I give House a hug, I'm coming back to punch Wilson in the nose.

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Thanks.

I needed another reason to cry.

I want to hug him.

Please someone hug this man.

We can cry together.

And if there was a way for me to hug him I'd be all over it. And him.

I think if the writers even remotely live up to the hype over the last few episodes of the season, there is going to be a lot more crying over this poor soul.

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I've been wanting to hold him since the end of season 4.

Every episode I watch makes me want to scream 'someone hug this man. Someone tell him they love him, even if they don't. For God's sake, lie!'

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Exactly! I've felt like that since day one, but more so over the last year. Poor guy.

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I have trouble understanding how anyone can have a different reaction to him.

I mean other characters on the show, sure. But the omniscient audience has no excuse.

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That's so true. I just commented on a story by blackmare (it was very good) and accidentally let my feelings about the House/Wilson dynamic show through and got immediately called on the carpet for it.

But the truth is, I don't know how anyone in fandom can still see him as a one-dimensional character or a one-trick pony. He is many layered and complicated, and deserving of compassion, sympathy, and love.

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Yeah I saw that. It was well written. But I came away thinking, wow what a prick Wilson is. And the writer seemed to think people should have come away thinking "oh that silly Wilson. House isn't the least bit insecure. So even though the lie was hurtful, House wasn't affected!"

I mean, seriously? Do people not hear the hurt in House's voice, when Wilson told him he was having dinner with Stacy? When House found out Wilson was sleeping with Grace? When House found out Wilson lied to him about the Addison's patient...I could list a bunch more. But I'm tired.

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Yeah I saw that. It was well written.

Thanks. I have been typing so much today that my brain is turning to mush and I'm starting to confuse what I said and who I said it to.

But I came away thinking, wow what a prick Wilson is.

Totally. Which is why I posted what I did the first time. Apparently I was the only one besides you who saw it that way.

Do people not hear the hurt in House's voice...

Apparently not. So sad.

I'm tired too. Time to head home. (Yeah, I have one of those jobs that I can spend all day on LJ waxing poetic about my obsession with Dr. House, at least at this time of year. But not for too much longer.)

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*hugs House*

Wilson puts on a facade of niceness just the way House dons a facade of being a complete asshole. I don't think they are the exact opposites of their facades though.

I think they have both caused each other pain and meant to do just that. I also think Wilson is at times very clueless in regards of how to handle House and that adds additional pain.

I dunno- I enjoy dark!Wilson, but I am not ready to accept him as canon!Wilson just yet. Going to stick my head in the sand for a little while longer LOL.

Though I like reading Dark!Wilson, I don't think that canon Wilson is quite that bad. He's not a black-hearted evil bastard. He is, however, clueless and shallow enough that he doesn't see the effect he has on his so-called best friend.

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Wow you and

californiaquail pretty much said how I feel too. There have been so times I've wanted to hug House and not let go of him for a good hour or two. The man needs someone to just hold him and let him feel some human warmth and contact and love.

I think if the writers even remotely live up to the hype over the last few episodes of the season, there is going to be a lot more crying over this poor soul.

Poor soul indeed.

love Jeeves and Wooster! Hugh is such a versatile actor to be able to pull off both Bertie Wooster and House, MD so incredibly well.

Hugh is quite amazing isn't he? I've just begun to go through Jeeves and Wooster (starting Season 2 tonight in fact) and the difference between Bertie Wooster and Greg House is like the difference between night and day. I'd say the man is one of the most versatile actors out there.

I just want to take him in my arms and cuddle him but he'd probably tell me to piss off.

What he needs is for someone to hug him and tell him they love him while completely ignoring him when he says to piss off. He might struggle for a while, but I really, truly believe that if you hold on long enough he'll melt right into you.

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awwwww

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He looks like someone HIT him. Thinking about it made me tear up. No joke.

Interestingly, the way you described feeling about House (he needs a hug, he's very sensitive, you don't understand how other people can possibly see him as one-dimensional) kind of mirrors the way I feel about Wilson. It's not the same, but the last part rung a loud bell in my head. The guy is so very fucked-up, and I just feel bad for him. It doesn't stop me from getting FURIOUS with him, or from reading Dark!Wilson fic, but I always just end up feeling sad for him. I don't understand Wilson Hate, because to me he is so human and so fallable that I can't help but love him.

With House, the wanna-hug-him feelings are mixed with OhMyGodHughLaurieIsDroolWorthy feelings and EverybodyElseExceptForHouseSucks feelings. But also, I sometimes get frustrated with him for no good reason. I'm not sure what thats about.

Interestingly, the way you described feeling about House (he needs a hug, he's very sensitive, you don't understand how other people can possibly see him as one-dimensional) kind of mirrors the way I feel about Wilson. It's not the same, but the last part rung a loud bell in my head. The guy is so very fucked-up, and I just feel bad for him. It doesn't stop me from getting FURIOUS with him, or from reading Dark!Wilson fic, but I always just end up feeling sad for him. I don't understand Wilson Hate, because to me he is so human and so fallable that I can't help but love him.

I hope that people realize that I don't hate Wilson. I love Wilson, actually. I'm just REALLY mad at him right now. I totally agree that Wilson is human and fallible, and I feel bad for him, too. My heart broke for him when he blamed himself for Daniel's disappearance (and yay for House being there for him). It's just that he seems to have lost something since the first 2 seasons. He seems to be unable to really comprehend the effect his behavior has on House. House is screwed up enough as it is, I just want Wilson to realize that he's not helping.

With House, the wanna-hug-him feelings are mixed with OhMyGodHughLaurieIsDroolWorthy feelings and EverybodyElseExceptForHouseSucks feelings. But also, I sometimes get frustrated with him for no good reason. I'm not sure what thats about.

Hee. Yes, I can certainly understand those feelings! I admit sometimes it's hard to look at him and not be thinking about how incredibly sexy Hugh is and all the things I'd like to do to him (rowwr), but I never get frustrated with House. I guess I sympathize and identify too much with him. It's complicated and has to do with more than having the same thought processes and curiousity, etc. It has to do with someone doing the best they can to cope with a history of abuse and suffering from terrible pain that is regularly dismissed by his two best friends.

I think one of the saddest and most moving scenes ever is at the end of One Day, One Room (one of my absolute favorite episodes) when he admits that his father abused him. The pain and sadness in his eyes and in his voice are difficult to watch and listen to. You can hear how much this has affected his life and the way he views and interacts with the world. He is such a tragic figure that it's impossible for me to see him as anything but a sympathetic character. (Hugh Laurie is effing AMAZING.)

I don't think Wilson is one-dimensional at all, but I do think that he's not nearly as screwed up and complicated as House. I do, however, also think that he is much more self-centered than House, and that's the reason he can put that look on House's face without realizing beforehand that he's about to do some very great harm.

I love having all these Wilson vs. House conversations. With one minor exception (not here), everyone has been so mature and reasonable about it, and not taking everything personally. (Thank you for being one of those people.) I absolutely love a good "debate", but I'm very gunshy because I've been in the middle of some very ugly scenes before when I had an opinion different from someone else.

This is fun.

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I want to give your lovely response the full return it deserves, so be warned: I may ramble :)

First off: I don't think you hate Wilson, or that you think he's one-dimensional. Generally, I've found that people who are interested in the H?W pairing (sexual or otherwise) who have problems with Wilson don't hate him. Those tend to be, and I generalize, Huddy and Hameron fans who piss me off with their opinions of Wilson, usually because they are so shallow!

I'm torn as to whether Wilson truly doesn't understand the effect he has on House, or if on some level he DOES understand, but is just to exhausted and worn-out to acknowledge and then deal with it. I do believe that when House hurts Wilson (which hasn't REALLy happened since season 3, JMO) he knows exactly what he is doing. Which is worse? I don't know.

It's always fascinating to me how much rabid (in a good way!) House fans who can empathize with House can understand the character. I've never had to deal with addiction or chronic pain, in myself, so while I can recognize the issues, I have a lot of trouble understanding them.

I identify very strongly with Wilson, in ways which sometimes make me uncomfortable. I can manipulate people very easily when I want to. I can be incredibly charming when I want to be. I'm an accomplished liar. I'm sixteen, and I've been severely depressed since I was 12. Depression and medication ARE things I have dealt with personally, so the way Wilson deals with his depression helps me connect with him. I also have a need to feel needed, in that I like to take care of people. Also, I am not an insecure person, but I do feel safer and more secure in my relationships if I am providing some sort of caretaking, emotional or otherwise. I also have a compulsive need to appear well-adjusted and healthy, which I am slowly but surely shaking off in therapy (next step- blue hair!). For example, I once had a social worker who was in charge of keeping me from failing my classes tell me, "You look like you've never had a hard year in you life." My response was, yeah, that's part of my issues, YOU STUPID CUNT. (Pent-up rage, much?)

So, while I can't really identify with House, I can with Wilson, and so my perspective is skewed in that particular direction.

I do believe House is a tragic character, but it frustrated me, for example, that he couldn't just tell Wilson, Yes, yes I am in therapy, now FUCK OFF. I understand why he didn't, but I really wish he would.

I think that House and Wilson are screwed up in such contradictory ways that it is difficult to compare their damage, but I would say that you are probably right that House's is more complicated. I also think it is more obvious, but this may be because of our unique position as viewers. I think Wilson's ability to hide his damage is almost admirable, in terms of how very good he can be at it. I also find it tragic, relatable to my own life, and VERY interesting.

I like that you mentioned that Wilson is far more self-centered than House. I think that, over the past 5 seasons, House has shown himself to be more selfish than Wilson. Wilson, on the other hand, is more self-absorbed and self-centered. He will do unselfish things, but he is very centered on himself. Did that make sense?

And, finally, I'll leave you with an analogy before I go. I have a dog. My dog has an orange hot-dog toy, with a squeaker on each end. A good H/W discussion is like when my dog bites one end of the hot dog and squeaks, and then I grab the other end and squeak back. A bad H/W discussion is like the times when I squeak my end, and instead of squeaking his own end back, my dog lunges for my end and bites my hand. And that is my *brilliant* analysis ;)

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Generally, I've found that people who are interested in the H?W pairing (sexual or otherwise) who have problems with Wilson don't hate him. Those tend to be, and I generalize, Huddy and Hameron fans who piss me off with their opinions of Wilson, usually because they are so shallow!

I don't have a lot of experience with Hameron shippers, but Huddy shippers (and I just KNOW I'm going to catch hell for saying this) make me crazy. I really didn't mind Huddy shippers until I realized that as a group they are just so out there. They are delusional and so obsessed that they can't even recognize reality any more. Certainly not all of them, but there are a LOT of them. Shallow? Yes, in the way that they can't see or tolerate anything besides Huddy. (Believe it or not, I actually ship House/Wilson. I'm sure some of the people I've been chatting with would be surprised to hear that, but I've always been into slash.)

I'm torn as to whether Wilson truly doesn't understand the effect he has on House, or if on some level he DOES understand, but is just to exhausted and worn-out to acknowledge and then deal with it. I do believe that when House hurts Wilson (which hasn't REALLy happened since season 3, JMO) he knows exactly what he is doing. Which is worse? I don't know.

I can't think of a time when I thought, "Gee, Wilson realizes that he's hurting House." Usually I'm yelling at him to stop before he sends the guy over the edge. When House hurts Wilson (and you're right, it hasn't been much at all lately), you know he knows he's doing it. I know I'm biased, but I think it's worse when you DON'T know your doing it because you'd have no reference point to measure against when deciding just how far to go.
When House deliberately sets out to hurt Wilson, he can gauge Wilson's reaction and he can control the outcome because he knows what kind of effect he's having. Wilson is a bit more dangerous because he's clueless as to the damage he is doing. He doesn't know when to stop because he doesn't really have a way to judge what that point should be.

Depression and medication ARE things I have dealt with personally, so the way Wilson deals with his depression helps me connect with him. I also have a need to feel needed, in that I like to take care of people. Also, I am not an insecure person, but I do feel safer and more secure in my relationships if I am providing some sort of caretaking, emotional or otherwise. I also have a compulsive need to appear well-adjusted and healthy, which I am slowly but surely shaking off in therapy (next step- blue hair!).

I can certainly see why you would relate to him. You sound very much like him! Good for you for recognizing and getting help, though. I have suffered with depression for most of my life (I'm WAY older than you, btw!) and I can understand what you have gone through.

I do believe House is a tragic character, but it frustrated me, for example, that he couldn't just tell Wilson, Yes, yes I am in therapy, now FUCK OFF. I understand why he didn't, but I really wish he would.

I wish he would, too! Just once I'd like to see him just tell him off and walk away. Sadly, he never will because he needs Wilson. He carries guilt because of Amber, and I really think House believes he owes Wilson more than he can ever give. It's sad to see what abuse the man will take from both Wilson and Cuddy. It's sadder to think that he believes he deserves it.

too long... continued below

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No worries, the Huddy shippers are crazy. i was reading comments from a recent spoiler (baaaad idea) and there were a bunch of reasonable anti-Huddy posts, and then out of nowhere: "Oh, shut up, you crazy, bitter Hamerons. Huddy 4eva!!" And I was lie, WTF? Nobody mentioned Hameron/Cameron. (And, god, do I hate shipper names.)

On the one hand, I do think Wilson is dangerous in that he doesn't know when House is in a bad place, where pushing could have serious negative results. On the other hand, House knows exactly HOW to push when he wants to hurt Wilson. I'm not sure that he ever would, but if he wanted to House is entirely capable of hurting Wilson deeply at a bad moment. I think we see this side of House most when he's being mean to Cuddy, which is another reason I can't get behind the pairing.

In terms of depression, I got lucky enough to make two incredibly friends who helped me SO much. I met them when I was 14, and this guy was 17, and he could be doing anything at all, and if I showed up and needed to talk, he would drop anything. The other friend had swallowed a bottle of aspirin a year before, and she was the one who helped me ask my parents for therapy. There were a few other guys who were kind-of big brothers to me, and they all took such good care of me. Not related to H/W at all, so moving on...

I've been thinking about what you can owe someone without some sort of implied consent on you part. The only thing I can think of is money. What House thinks he owes Wilson is crap, because he didn't really agree to be in a place to owe them. Does that make sense? And for Wilson, I don't think he WANTS House to owe him, exactly, but I do think Wilson is so tired and run-down that he doesn't have it in him to fix his relationship with House, and having House feel he owes Wilson makes Wilson's life easier. Did that make sense?

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No worries, the Huddy shippers are crazy. i was reading comments from a recent spoiler (baaaad idea) and there were a bunch of reasonable anti-Huddy posts, and then out of nowhere: "Oh, shut up, you crazy, bitter Hamerons. Huddy 4eva!!" And I was lie, WTF? Nobody mentioned Hameron/Cameron. (And, god, do I hate shipper names.)

What bugs me more than anything is that there could be a discussion following (say, for example, a spoiler) where not only is Cuddy not in it, but there is nothing to even suggest that she even exists and the Huddy shippers will inevitably jump in with "OMG Huddy sex!!". There's nothing more intolerable for me than when a nice, intelligent discussion is totally ruined by a comment that is completely irrelevant and uncalled for. The other thing is that the Huddy shippers are the first to call everyone else bitter. (I'm not saying other shippers are not guilty, but the Huddy shippers are certainly the loudest and most outspoken, IMHO.)

On the one hand, I do think Wilson is dangerous in that he doesn't know when House is in a bad place, where pushing could have serious negative results. On the other hand, House knows exactly HOW to push when he wants to hurt Wilson. I'm not sure that he ever would, but if he wanted to House is entirely capable of hurting Wilson deeply at a bad moment. I think we see this side of House most when he's being mean to Cuddy, which is another reason I can't get behind the pairing.

I absolutely agree. There was never a doubt that House was capable of hurting people. I just watched "Finding Judas" last night and I think it is a good example of how House can intentionally hurt someone if he wants to. House can be hurtful to anyone at anytime. It's one of his character' main traits and it's perfectly balanced by the amount of good he does by saving patients when no one else can.

I've been thinking about what you can owe someone without some sort of implied consent on you part. The only thing I can think of is money. What House thinks he owes Wilson is crap, because he didn't really agree to be in a place to owe them. Does that make sense?

I'm not too sure I understand what you mean here. Remove Wilson from the equation and put in the scenario from "Words and Deeds" where Cuddy lied on the witness stand to keep House from going to jail. How do you see this as an example of what you are trying to say? I'm guessing that in this example what you would be saying is that House doesn't owe Cuddy a thing because he never asked her to perjure herself on his behalf. She holds it over his head for a long time afterwards, but it was her choice to do what she did and she shouldn't use it against House. Is this what you are saying?

And for Wilson, I don't think he WANTS House to owe him, exactly, but I do think Wilson is so tired and run-down that he doesn't have it in him to fix his relationship with House, and having House feel he owes Wilson makes Wilson's life easier. Did that make sense?

This makes sense, yes.

In terms of depression, I got lucky enough to make two incredibly friends who helped me SO much.

Friends can be lifesavers, can't they?

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I like that you mentioned that Wilson is far more self-centered than House. I think that, over the past 5 seasons, House has shown himself to be more selfish than Wilson. Wilson, on the other hand, is more self-absorbed and self-centered. He will do unselfish things, but he is very centered on himself. Did that make sense?

It makes perfect sense, yes. I agree to a certain point. I think that House CAN be very selfish, but it depends on who we are talking about him dealing with. I think when it comes to his patients House is very un-selfish because he will become so focused on the case that he will neglect his own comfort and health. I don't know if I think that he's selfish when it comes to Wilson. I'd have to give that more thought before I'd comment.

And, finally, I'll leave you with an analogy before I go. I have a dog. My dog has an orange hot-dog toy, with a squeaker on each end. A good H/W discussion is like when my dog bites one end of the hot dog and squeaks, and then I grab the other end and squeak back. A bad H/W discussion is like the times when I squeak my end, and instead of squeaking his own end back, my dog lunges for my end and bites my hand. And that is my *brilliant* analysis ;)

Hee! That's a very good analysis!

And by the way, YOU ARE SIXTEEN???? OMG! I have got to tell you that I would NEVER have guessed. You are so well-spoken, reasonable, easy going, and mature that I seriously thought you were much older. I'm impressed.

Sorry I took so long to write back. My daughter commandeered the computer earlier this evening and I'm just getting around to checking email and LJ.

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*blushes* Thanks! I am NOT a "normal" sixteen year old... the people at my school I get along with the best are all adult employees! What you said was very sweet. :)

I don't have time to respond right now (my dad has to do taxes-stuff) but in the meantime, would you mind if I friend you?

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Already friended you back! I'm going out tonight and have a lot going on this weekend, so if I don't get back to you right away it's because I'm busy.

Talk to you soon.

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Well, one could argue, and I don't necessarily agree, that House's obsessive-ness actually hinders patient care, because a well-rested House who takes care of himself might be more clear-headed and able to diagnose patients. I think the show has tried to display that this is NOT the case, but I do think it is a valid argument. In terms of House being selfish in his personal life, I think his interactions with Cuddy, "Joy" especially, are when he is at his most selfish. YMMV, and again, I am biased by kind of hating that pairing.

I'm actually getting tired of the lack of development on this show. Plus, I have re-lapsed in my Grey's Anatomy addiction (*fills with self-loathing*) and there are only so many hours in the week. I think that after this season, I may not be able to watch episodes as they air next year, and I'm not sure I want to. *is confused*

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In terms of House being selfish in his personal life, I think his interactions with Cuddy, "Joy" especially, are when he is at his most selfish. YMMV, and again, I am biased by kind of hating that pairing.

House's interactions with Cuddy, IMHO, alway s show him at his most selfish. It's clear that he is used to being indulged by Cuddy and anyone taking up so much as a tiny bit of her attention puts him into a frenzy of need. (I used to think that Huddy was a good pairing, but now I really pretty much despise it.) I think he is the same way with Wilson for the most part.

I'm actually getting tired of the lack of development on this show. Plus, I have re-lapsed in my Grey's Anatomy addiction (*fills with self-loathing*) and there are only so many hours in the week. I think that after this season, I may not be able to watch episodes as they air next year, and I'm not sure I want to. *is confused*

I can understand that completely. For the entire first half of this season I was totally disappointed in the way the show was going. I thought it was focused too much on things that were outside the original premise of the show and that the characters were either completely missing (Wilson) or they were being developed very poorly (Cuddy) or they had changed too much since the first few seasons (Wilson, Foreman). To this day, they've done nothing to develop Kutner's character, and a lot of people find him the most likeable of the new ducklings. I thought it was becoming "13, MD" and it was getting way too soapy for me. However, as disappointed as I was in the first half of the year, I wouldn't dream of not watching. I still love the show, I love Hugh, and even if the plots totally sucked I'd watch it for him. And I also think that whatever damage the writers did in the first half of the season has been reversed in the last half (so far). IMHO the show has been so good lately that TPTB have redeemed themselves.

There are a lot of people that are losing interest, though, and though I don't feel the same way, I can certainly understand it. I'm hoping the last few episodes will help to change that.

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May